wiki.bugzilla wrote:

please also note bug 5619, comment 16 to bug 5619, comment 19 for some suggestions and/or grumbling ;-)

(In reply to comment #0)

Hmm, I'm not sure if I really like the new [[Special:Statisics]] page (I rather
do not).

I like it :)

Well, its old layout with just a few messages (basically
MediaWiki:Sitestatstext and MediaWiki:Userstatstext) enabled sysops to
adapt/localize it much more according to their needs (including flexible
sorting of specific numbers, formulation in explanatory sentences or a design
as a table, shortening or extending of the available data, adding images,
whatever), than it is possible now.

The old page was IMO a mess for default installations. Now we have a table with a clean structure.

Anyway, please implement a feasible way to localize _all_ fields and _all_
links of the new table. For example, the "editor" group (on de.wikipedia) isn't
localizable atm (neither its name nor its linking, and it doesn't use
[[MediaWiki:Editor]] obviously). The name of the "checkuser" group also isn't
localizable, etc.

Of course a bug, I assume a 'loadAllMessages' is missing. I will have a look begin of the next week to it.

Please also allow sysops to control/define the sequence of rows in the table,
and to disable specific rows entirely (e.g. needless zero value groups).

All rows from the user stats sections have own CSS classes now. At least it is possible to disable specific rows.

But worth to add classes for the other rows too.

Additionally the table could look better if there would be at least a bit space
between the texts and the table borders on the left and on the right (I know we
can adapt the class "mw-statistics-table" locally, but this doesn't apply to
default installations).

This table uses the same CSS as [[Special:ListGroupRights]]. May we can tweak the space a bit.

(In reply to comment bug 5619#c17)

Oh, by the way, where is former $4 (percentage of sysops) gone?

Can be added in [[MediaWiki:statistics-users]]: "… {{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUPS:sysop}}/{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}*100}} %" (this kind, not tested yet, and for other user groups too)

But I am missing a magic word for {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}, but this is another issue.

Please either go back to the previous page structure of headlines and normal language sentences which can be localized to something that non-techies understand,

**or**

give individual installations a way to select text form (rather than a tabular form) via the "MediaWiki:" namespace, including the chance, not to show some data.

The current layout, though offering more numerical informations, is considerabl worse than the old one, which already was too terse to be useful.

I agree. You seem to have ignored the points I raised in bug 5619 comment 13, and the suggestions I gave in bug 5619 comment 15.

I spent quite a while working on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitestatstext, which ended up as a very good-looking, informative and welcoming page. The new page is an ugly and pretty dry list of stats.

Please can we revert this until this page fulfils more than just a functional goal! The minimum requirement is that it can be styled to look something like the old MediaWiki version somehow (even if this styling is not present in the default install).

(In reply to comment #5)

I spent quite a while working on
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitestatstext, which ended up as a very
good-looking, informative and welcoming page. The new page is an ugly and
pretty dry list of stats.

I agree, it looked nice but only for people with default language 'en'. All users with another preference language saw the ugly text messages (and more important: with some 0 numbers because the page view count is disabled on WMF servers.

But now all users see a proper table. Without any 0 numbers. With r41146 I added some more CSS classes to the rows so that rows can be disabled per Common.css - for all languages!

Maybe a possible solution would be to introduce an (per default) empty message like 'statistics-freetext'. If this message is customized with wikisyntax and magic words, this message will override the actual table.

In this way we have a nice table for default installations and users with a language other than the content language see this table too.

And anon users and users with content language see the project specific statistic page.

(In reply to comment #6)

I agree, it looked nice but only for people with default language 'en'. All
users with another preference language saw the ugly text messages (and more
important: with some 0 numbers because the page view count is disabled on WMF
servers.

I agree that changes should ideally work in a cross-language way and until you raised it here it wasn't something I've previously considered. However that's not really relevant to the point of this (or the previous) bug - it would be (technically) trivial to update the other languages to use the English layout if someone bothered to do it.

Your second point is the issue that bug 5619 was logged to fix, and something along the lines of my suggestion in bug 5619 comment 15 would have done the job - your fix introduces a lot of other changes that have not been discussed and which not everyone agrees with (in fact, so far you are the only person that has voiced any approval for your change). If it were up to me I would back-out the change for the time being, spec. it properly, get a working implementation (without HTML errors!) that allows an appropriate level of customisability and THEN launch it onto the live sites.

For example, I have not seen any discussion about whether we want this page to be a raw table of facts (as it is now) or in a more friendly and readable format (as it was). There are pros and cons of both, so I'm not saying it should be one over the other, but I don't feel that the discussion has been had yet. However, it is important to note that the original format gave you a choice (it was easy to format as a tabular list of stats if you wanted), but the new format does not, and I think that is my main objection to the current solution.

(In reply to comment #7)

For example, I have not seen any discussion about whether we want this page to
be a raw table of facts (as it is now) or in a more friendly and readable
format (as it was).

Sorry, but I have proposed this change in August on wikitech-l and Brion gave some hints, see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2008-August/039202.html so I implemented it.

See also bug # 15707

Unfortunately, I missed that conversation. I agree that the end result is an improvement over the previous end result, but the mechanism for achieving it is too restrictive (and the MediaWiki.org end result, the best of the bunch imho, is now completely unacheivable).

wiki.bugzilla wrote:

… just uploaded an image of mediawiki.org's previous style/layout of this special page, so that everyone knows what we're talking about:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Image:Old_stats.png
(note: actual statistical numbers are missing there because the new version already went live at the time I reproduced the "screenshot")

wiki.bugzilla wrote:

(In reply to comment #6)

(…)
Maybe a possible solution would be to introduce an (per default) empty message
like 'statistics-freetext'. If this message is customized with wikisyntax and
magic words, this message will override the actual table. (…)

I like this idea. Allowing more customisation again through "freetext" will be a good compromise between the old 100% flexibility and the current restricted table format.

vpovilaitis wrote:

Why after new Statistics special page is instaled in Lithuanian Wiktionary are not change counters of: Content pages; Pages; Page edits since Vikižodynas was setup ??? I think that same are in Lithuanian wikipedia.

The same is true in the ksh Wikipedia. Statistics are entirely broken. There are several 0 entries despite the claim, they were avoided now, figures show hardly any relation to reality, hardly ever change, and are becoming pretty useless.

I urgently suggest to revert this change asap.

(In reply to comment #14)

The same is true in the ksh Wikipedia. Statistics are entirely broken. There
are several 0 entries despite the claim, they were avoided now, figures show
hardly any relation to reality, hardly ever change, and are becoming pretty
useless.

I urgently suggest to revert this change asap.

These broken counters are not related to the new page design but to an unrelated broken site_stats. Please open a new bug (if not exist, not checked atm) for broken counters. Thanks.

I thought the whole point of the fix was to stop counters that aren't working from being shown in the stats!

(In reply to comment #16)

I thought the whole point of the fix was to stop counters that aren't working
from being shown in the stats!

Yes but please keep in mind that the temporarly broken counters are not related to the page redesign! See https://wikitech.leuksman.com/index.php?title=Server_admin_log#September_24 : "17:52 brion: disabling SiteStats::update() actual update query since it's blocking for reasons we can't identify and generally breaking shit"

You would have the same broken counters with the old statistics page.

Please be a bit patient, I am working on a more general solution as described in comment #6 ('statistics-freetext'). Thanks.

Will there ever be a solution to this bug?
I am still in favour of just reverting the change to this messy and broken tabular version of Special:Statistics.

(In reply to comment #18)

Will there ever be a solution to this bug?
I am still in favour of just reverting the change to this messy and broken
tabular version of Special:Statistics.

I am working on it.

Can we please revert these unnecessary changes until something better is there?
There are unexplained figures, lots of zeroes, red links, a messy layout, unintelligibly terse messages, stuff that does not apply to the wiki.
Nothing was to complain about the original page contents.
Waiting 3 months for improvements that do not come it too much.

Are there still outstanding issues with this? I'm not looking for "I don't like it, change it back," I'm wondering if there's still any concrete issues with Special:Statistics as it is now.

mike.lifeguard+bugs wrote:

(In reply to comment #21)

Are there still outstanding issues with this? I'm not looking for "I don't like
it, change it back," I'm wondering if there's still any concrete issues with
Special:Statistics as it is now.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that it not look like a vanilla html table out of my grade 9 intro to programming course.

(In reply to comment #21)

Are there still outstanding issues with this? I'm not looking for "I don't like
it, change it back," I'm wondering if there's still any concrete issues with
Special:Statistics as it is now.

Yes, loads - refer to the previous discussion in this bug!

(In reply to comment #20)

Can we please revert these unnecessary changes until something better is there?
There are unexplained figures, lots of zeroes, red links, a messy layout,
unintelligibly terse messages, stuff that does not apply to the wiki.
Nothing was to complain about the original page contents.
Waiting 3 months for improvements that do not come it too much.

It is now over 7 months now...

(In reply to comment #17)

Please be a bit patient, I am working on a more general solution

This is clearly not going to happen - can we please revert to the previously working solution.

(In reply to comment #23)

(In reply to comment #21)

Are there still outstanding issues with this? I'm not looking for "I don't like
it, change it back," I'm wondering if there's still any concrete issues with
Special:Statistics as it is now.

Yes, loads - refer to the previous discussion in this bug!

(In reply to comment #20)

Can we please revert these unnecessary changes until something better is there?
There are unexplained figures, lots of zeroes, red links, a messy layout,
unintelligibly terse messages, stuff that does not apply to the wiki.
Nothing was to complain about the original page contents.
Waiting 3 months for improvements that do not come it too much.

What isn't explained? Where do you see zeros that shouldn't exist? What message is terse?

I'm looking at my local copy and it all looks ok. The only 0s I see are ones that should be 0 (ie: bots, job queue). You'll have to be more specific or I (or anyone) can't fix it.