Author: danny.leinad
Description:
Please merge Vector messages with common messages of other skins, for example:
etc.
It is a waste of time when need to locally modify messages for *all skins* and separately for Vector.
Version: 1.16.x
Severity: minor
Message re-use is usually discouraged, and in the case of vector it makes sense, as the visual context and space constraints are unique to Vector, and should not be assumed to be the same as other skins.
The software on translatewiki.net is smart enough to be able to use the qqq messages that indicate the message is similar to another (when appropriate) so that it's not the same amount of effort to translate the second message once the first has been done. Often the difference is brevity or more strictly using verbs for the right-side tabs.
danny.leinad wrote:
(In reply to comment #1)
Message re-use is usually discouraged, and in the case of vector it makes
sense, as the visual context and space constraints are unique to Vector, and
should not be assumed to be the same as other skins.
Please, do not be lazy... Let's be practical, not bureaucratic. Wikimedia users not only use Vector, but also other skins.
What is the difference between:
etc.
???
Answer: Nothing(!) Both messages will *alwyas* have the same text.
The software on translatewiki.net is smart enough to be able to use the qqq
messages that indicate the message is similar to another (when appropriate) so
that it's not the same amount of effort to translate the second message once
the first has been done. Often the difference is brevity or more strictly using
verbs for the right-side tabs.
I said about modifying messages locally where admins do not know that exist extra messages for Vector. Admins of projects do not see qqq messages.
the visual context and space constraints are unique to Vector, and
should not be assumed to be the same as other skins.
That could be argued for all skins. "My skin is so special it needs an specific message".
I don't see such need for at least the provided examples. Of course, the ability of giving eg. a large name for vector, is neat, but that will bite us later when the two sets of tabs gets desynchronized.
We could get the best of both worlds by doing everywhere wfEmptyMsg('vector-namespace-main') ? wfMsg( 'nstab-main' ) : wfMsg('vector-namespace-main') but that looks ugly.
danny.leinad wrote:
later when the two sets of tabs gets desynchronized.
Exactly, for example on Meta we had desynchronized MediaWiki:Vector-namespace-main and MediaWiki:Nstab-main.
danny.leinad wrote:
Before you start http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Releases/Default_Switch#Phase_V_Deployment I would suggest you to fix this issue.
A lot of small projects not done translating Vector messages, but these projects have ready the same messages for other skins.
It is unwise to switch projects, which now have an interface in their mother tongue, and after switching a number of messages will be in English, because someone did not want to use the common messages.
Not an enhancement, this is a bug. I've disagreed with this choice since the beginning (I complained somewhere...).
(In reply to comment #3)
the visual context and space constraints are unique to Vector, and
should not be assumed to be the same as other skins.That could be argued for all skins. "My skin is so special it needs an specific
message".
This. And no, skins aren't so special. Skins are designed to present a different visual look to a page. The elements of the page should retain their familiar names across all skins.
I don't see such need for at least the provided examples. Of course, the
ability of giving eg. a large name for vector, is neat, but that will bite us
later when the two sets of tabs gets desynchronized.
They can and they will. And we will inevitably get complaints that "When I changed nstab-whatever it didn't work in Vector"
We could get the best of both worlds by doing everywhere
wfEmptyMsg('vector-namespace-main') ? wfMsg( 'nstab-main' ) :
wfMsg('vector-namespace-main') but that looks ugly.
Ugh. You *could* do that in Vector. Preferably we should just chunk the redundant messages entirely.
(In reply to comment #6)
Ugh. You *could* do that in Vector. Preferably we should just chunk the
redundant messages entirely.
That's what we're doing, yes. Adam has been assigned to eliminate this duplication for the namespace tabs (not for the action tabs (read, edit, history, ...) because it at least somewhat makes sense there).
(In reply to comment #7)
That's what we're doing, yes. Adam has been assigned to eliminate this
duplication for the namespace tabs
Yay :)
(not for the action tabs (read, edit,
history, ...) because it at least somewhat makes sense there).
I disagree :(
In 1.18 the new content_navigation code now supports things like "{skinname}-action-delete" falling back to generic messages like "delete" when the skin specific message does not exist. A new wfMessageFallback abstracts it a bit.
This was done in r72055. 12 Vector specific messages remain at the moment, but those have a valid reason, IMO.