Gerrit change #48444.

Samuel, translations for wikimediafoundation.org are done on Meta-Wiki. Once a page is translated and proofread there, it's copied to wmfwiki. I think the workflow should probably be kept that way, unless you convince the Wikimedia Foundation communication department to want things differently.

Proposing to close this issue without satisfying the request.

(In reply to comment #2)

Samuel, translations for wikimediafoundation.org are done on Meta-Wiki. Once
a
page is translated and proofread there, it's copied to wmfwiki. I think the
workflow should probably be kept that way, unless you convince the Wikimedia
Foundation communication department to want things differently.

Proposing to close this issue without satisfying the request.

Siebrand, I think you've misread comment 0: Sj said "project overviews and resolutions". Resolutions are published and managed exclusively by the board.

(In reply to comment #3)

Siebrand, I think you've misread comment 0: Sj said "project overviews and
resolutions". Resolutions are published and managed exclusively by the board.

I have indeed, Federico. Thanks for pointing that out.

If the board starts publishing in some languages, and not in others, you can be certain there will be demand (or volunteers) for it, and then you're back you a confusing process with two translatable pages: one on wmf.org and one on meta that is synced to wmf.org, where one cannot really paste full pages, because the translatable page is already present.

My recommendation remains that translation be done at meta, and that wmf.org remains "plain text".

But by "published primarily on the wmfwiki" Sj meant that those are things that are really only published on wmfwiki: as you can easily see at [[m:TR]], there isn't any copy on Meta, no translation requests or translations produced by others, nothing at all. Most of the stuff on wmfwiki is not translated at all any longer, actually, except the terms of use and the fundraising stuff which is not affected by this bug.
The translation will happen directly on wmfwiki and only on wmfwiki for all languages, for the pages in question.
Of course wmfwiki doesn't have many editors, but it's better than nothing. The current system is so burdensome that in the end it's always "the usual suspects" doing the translations on Meta and then copying them by themselves to wmfwiki, which makes very little sense: Additionally, before you ask, it's expected that a few more editors may be added with the usual process if needed, following this change: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Request_for_an_account_on_the_Foundation_wiki%2Fheader&diff=4953076&oldid=3212875

I agree with Siebrand. Meta-Wiki has an active translation community and it makes sense to keep those efforts centralized.

Tangentially: I think it's also time we seriously (re-)consider merging wikimediafoundation.org into Meta-Wiki. This has come up recently in the context of cleaning up pages that use raw HTML.

And we're sure this SJ is SJ, right? I don't recognize the e-mail address; I've only seen meta.sj/gmail.com used for the past few years, though I remember Sam saying he had a very old Bugzilla account.

(In reply to comment #6)

And we're sure this SJ is SJ, right? I don't recognize the e-mail
address; I've only seen meta.sj/gmail.com used for the past few years,
though I remember Sam saying he had a very old Bugzilla account.

Never mind!

[ -shell +shellpolicy. Bug assigned to code submitter. ]

(Nemo: please let the status to 'shellpolicy' while the issues in comments 4 and 6 are clarified)

They're already cleared in comment 5, thanks.

A bug should reflect the state of an issue.

Currently, we've on Gerrit a -1 from SieBrand asking we reconsider the issue.

This -1 comment is still there.

Currently, at comment 6, we have a request from MZMcBride to especially reconsider the deployment.

You can't really push the fact you answered with your comment the issue. Keywords a

(This is a follow-up of previous comment, I had a little issue with Bugzilla, it submitted the form.)

You can't really push the fact you answered with your comment the issue. Keywords should reflect the current state: shell means "ready to deploy", shellpolicy "need further discussion".

Please don't come back to shell while SieBrand and MZMcBride don't agree you answered their concerns with your comment.

SJ, it's probably a good idea if you elaborate on your request to get some of the above questions out of the way.

(In reply to comment #10)

A bug should reflect the state of an issue.

Usually the state of consensus is defined by the bug, not by the code review...

(In reply to comment #12)

SJ, it's probably a good idea if you elaborate on your request to get some of
the above questions out of the way.

What questions are still not out of the way? I don't see any, it gets hard to respond.

I commented on this bug just to chime in (and to point out that perhaps merging wikimediafoundation.org into meta.wikimedia.org is a better use of time overall), but I trust Sj, Nemo, and Siebrand to make the best decision here.

This really isn't going anywhere, and there doesn't seem to be much support for doing so.

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/48444 (Gerrit Change I580650826be18637a40c78249ffcff993ac9af62) | change ABANDONED [by Reedy]

(In reply to comment #15)

This really isn't going anywhere, and there doesn't seem to be much support
for doing so.

There was recently a coup on wikimediafoundation.org and the Board and staff have been re-appointed as guardians of the wiki. A sitting Board member requested that the Translate extension be enabled, so I'm not quite sure this is a "wontfix" in the sense of "never going to happen."

That said, I don't really disagree with the closure of this bug: I still agree with myself in comment 6. With transwiki importing already possible from wikimediafoundation.org to Meta-Wiki ("foundation" is a valid import source for Meta-Wiki) and automatic redirects in place (i.e., #REDIRECT [[m:Foo]] works seamlessly on wikimediafoundation.org), there's little reason to not start moving content from wikimediafoundation.org to Meta-Wiki as soon as possible, as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you for considering and closing this.

For the reasons given above, doing this on Meta makes sense.
(This was also resolved on-wiki, sorry for not updating the bug.)

I don't care where translations happen, but I need to use Special:MyLanguage on WikimediaFoundation.org. Is it possible to turn on the extension, but still conduct the translations on meta?

FYI, Matt has proposed splitting the Special:MyLanguage functionality out from the Translate extension:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-June/077170.html

(In reply to Ryan Kaldari from comment #20)

FYI, Matt has proposed splitting the Special:MyLanguage functionality out
from the Translate extension:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-June/077170.html

Could be split to a separate bug to track, then have this issue changed so we aren't porting the whole extension (as I gathered above, that would be useless).

Could be split to a separate bug to track, then have this issue changed so we
aren't porting the whole extension (as I gathered above, that would be useless).

If it looks like there's consensus to split it off, we should split this bug as well. If Special:MyLanguage doesn't get split off, I still want to keep this bug open.

(In reply to Ryan Kaldari from comment #22)

If it looks like there's consensus to split it off, we should split this bug
as well.

Well, a split out bug report might prompt you to explain what you're trying to do. :-) At present, the issue here is unclear other than an unstated need on wikimediafoundation.org in comment 19.

We should probably pick either this bug report or wikitech-l to discuss this, though. I just asked for clarification there as well.

The specific need is that I want to set the 'Mobile-frontend-terms-url' message to '//m.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_Use' via the WikimediaMessages extension, so that people clicking the 'Terms of Use' link at the bottom of the page will get sent to the Terms of Use in their own language. Right now, wiki administrators have to override this message locally to point to the correct translation (after checking to see if it actually exists).

Okay, I split out the request to add "Special:MyLanguage" to MediaWiki core to bug 66762.

So it turns out that moving Special:MyLanguage to core is actually controversial and the 1-month old patch is currently blocked with a -2:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140765/

This prompts me to re-pose my unanswered question: Is it possible to turn on the Translate extension, but still conduct the translations on meta?

Thehelpfulonewiki wrote:

(In reply to Ryan Kaldari from comment #26)

This prompts me to re-pose my unanswered question: Is it possible to turn on
the Translate extension, but still conduct the translations on meta?

Reading what you intend to do with the Translate extension, yes as without <translate> tags on the pages on wmfwiki the translate extension itself shouldn't interfere with copying translations from Meta.

I don't know whether Special:MyLanguage will work without <translate> tags on a page though...

According to Niklas, Special:MyLanguage only cares about page titles and isn't affected by <translate> tags. Thus it should be possible to turn on the Translate extension on foundationwiki and only use Special:MyLanguage, ignoring the other functionality provided by the extension. The other option would be to split Special:MyLanguage into a completely separate extension.

What are folks' opinions on these two options?

(In reply to Ryan Kaldari from comment #26)

This prompts me to re-pose my unanswered question: Is it possible to turn on
the Translate extension, but still conduct the translations on meta?

It's possible, as long as no translation admins are made on foundationwiki or the translation admins instructed to avoid interferences.

How will Special:MyLanguage work for anonymous users (nearly everyone who visits foundationwiki)? AFAIS it won't.

If I remember correctly, Kaldari said they intend to use a specific feature of MyLanguage, that is the ability to redirect from a non-existing translation to the source (apparently language information is already available). http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_use/aa does this, even when logged out.

Of course to fully benefit from it one would need to fully enable ULS, including unregistered users (tracking bug 13097).

(In reply to Nemo from comment #31)

If I remember correctly, Kaldari said they intend to use a specific feature
of MyLanguage, that is the ability to redirect from a non-existing
translation to the source (apparently language information is already
available).
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_use/aa does this,
even when logged out.

Ah, didn't know it could do that. Cool!

Bug 66762 has been fixed, so this bug is no longer needed (by me at least). Reclosing.