llamaal_wikis wrote:

After the conclusion of
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votaciones/2014/Sobre_el_Editor_Visual
on the Spanish Wikipedia, some changes to the status of VE in that project have
to be implemented:

1. VE should now be opt-in
2. The "edit" tab should return to wikitext
3. VE should be presented as part of Beta Features
4. The tab for VE, if users activate it, should be "Editor VisualBETA"

Regards,

• Bug 60189 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

(In reply to comment #1)

4. The tab for VE, if users activate it, should be "Editor VisualBETA"

Note that this is different from the enwiki config (the rest of the request is the same). On enwiki:

• users who have VE disabled only see one tab, labeled "Edit", that points to the source editor
• for users who have VE enabled, this tab is labeled "Edit source" instead
• additionally, they have a VE tab labeled "EditBETA"
• the VE tab appears after (to the right of) the source editor tab

For eswiki, #4 in the request asks us to implement the third bullet point differently, by labeling the VE tab "Editor VisualBETA" rather than "EditarBETA".

So what should happen to the source editor tab for users who have VE enabled? Should it be labeled "Editar código" (as it is now, and would be with an enwiki-like configuration), or as "Editar", or ... ? Should it appear before or after the source editor tab (right now it's before, with an enwiki-like configuration it would be after).

llamaal_wikis wrote:

(In reply to comment #3)

(In reply to comment #1)

4. The tab for VE, if users activate it, should be "Editor VisualBETA"

Note that this is different from the enwiki config (the rest of the request
is
the same). On enwiki:

• users who have VE disabled only see one tab, labeled "Edit", that points to

the source editor

• for users who have VE enabled, this tab is labeled "Edit source" instead
• additionally, they have a VE tab labeled "EditBETA"
• the VE tab appears after (to the right of) the source editor tab

For eswiki, #4 in the request asks us to implement the third bullet point
differently, by labeling the VE tab "Editor VisualBETA" rather than
"EditarBETA".

So what should happen to the source editor tab for users who have VE enabled?
Should it be labeled "Editar código" (as it is now, and would be with an
enwiki-like configuration), or as "Editar", or ... ? Should it appear before
or
after the source editor tab (right now it's before, with an enwiki-like
configuration it would be after).

In the case a user enables VE, the source editor tab should remain as "Editar", and a new tab labeled "Editor VisualBETA" should appear after it.

llamaal_wikis wrote:

I want to clarify something: the "BETA" part in the name of the Visual Editor tab should appear in small and superscript text, as shown in this diff [1].

[1] https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AZona_de_pruebas%2F5&diff=72006555&oldid=71969129

Just to explain:

This request is easy, except for the desire to have the VisualEditor tab labelled "Editor Visual ^BETA". It is not currently possible to label the VisualEditor tab differently from the regular "Edit" tab (other than the appending of a BETA suffix), this would appear to require an alteration to the VisualEditor software itself.

The remaining three points of the request can be fulfilled easily, I think.

Change 109639 had a related patch set uploaded by TTO:
Move VisualEditor to secondary status on eswiki

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109639

Some questions and points (sorry for being slow; I've been on leave, returning next week):

1. When you say "VE should now be opt-in", what should happen to the accounts that have been using VE? Should they be opted-in, or just left stranded without VisualEditor? Should the default for new accounts be to have to find VisualEditor to switch it on?

2. You want the labels to be "Edit" for wikitext and "Editor Visual" for VisualEditor? Which way around should they go? (Right now eswiki has VE as the primary/first tab, but we could change it to secondary/second tab if you think it would be a good change. However, that would be a bit odd to do as well as the opt-in, and is more an alternative.

3. Also on the labels of the tabs, in general, we're not happy with the "beta" superscript note and we were planning to get rid of it in the next few weeks. I don't think it makes sense for an opt-in system with two warnings about the software being beta to have a third, and it doesn't work very well in Firefox and some other platforms due to browser bugs.

4. What is the plan to inform users who have been using VisualEditor as to the disruption? Particularly, what is the plan for anonymous editors (who can't opt-in)? About 20% of edits by anonymous users have been through VisualEditor to date, and this is likely to confuse them.

5. What is the plan for returning to use VisualEditor as the primary editor? What changes or fixes would you like to see?

Shouldn't these "big questions" be brought up with the entire eswiki community, rather than on Bugzilla where only the single community member who filed the bug will see?

albertojuansebastian wrote:

(In reply to comment #9)

Indeed. We are already discussing the answers in our Café (Village pump). In fact, in a few days (2 or 3) we will be able to give you the answers, since it seems that we are reaching consensus. Greetings.

albertojuansebastian wrote:

(In reply to comment #8)

Finally, I am able to aswer the questions. Thank you for the waiting.

The talk about the answers is here (in Spanish): https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Caf%C3%A9/Archivo/Noticias/Actual&oldid=72405348#Preguntas

The aswers can be also be read here (in English): https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Caf%C3%A9/Archivo/Noticias/Actual&oldid=72405348#Respuestas

Greetings.

1. When you say "VE should now be opt-in", what should happen to the accounts

that have been using VE? Should they be opted-in, or just left stranded
without
VisualEditor? Should the default for new accounts be to have to find
VisualEditor to switch it on?

As a consequence of the votation, the "opt-in" must be disabled; and thus it will be enabled by those who want to use it. The proper announcements will be made in order that noone overlook this change.

And, that is correct, the new users will have to get informed —or they will be informed if they ask for help— about the different tools available in esWikipedia, which are not less useful and important that this one: our spelling checker, the PopUps or FastButtons, etc.

2. You want the labels to be "Edit" for wikitext and "Editor Visual" for

VisualEditor? Which way around should they go? (Right now eswiki has VE as
the
primary/first tab, but we could change it to secondary/second tab if you
think
it would be a good change. However, that would be a bit odd to do as well as

Fully right, if the user enables the VE, the label "Edit" —"Editar"— should be the wikitext's one and the "Editor Visual" should be the VisualEditor one. Regarding to the labeling way once the VE is activated, the community was not asked about that in the votation; although most of the users have pronounced in favour of using the second label for "Editor Visual" —"Visual Editor"—. However, proceed as you see best.

3. Also on the labels of the tabs, in general, we're not happy with the

"beta"
superscript note and we were planning to get rid of it in the next few
weeks. I
don't think it makes sense for an opt-in system with two warnings about the
software being beta to have a third, and it doesn't work very well in Firefox
and some other platforms due to browser bugs.

In esWikipedia, the "beta" superscript has never been implemented, so we ignored its flaws. Besides, when the votation was proposed there were any warning about the software being beta, so it is logical that the community would desired to implement the "beta" warning. Be that as it may, our desires are limited by the technical viability of those, although this "beta" labeling it is still desired.

4. What is the plan to inform users who have been using VisualEditor as to

the
disruption? Particularly, what is the plan for anonymous editors (who can't
opt-in)? About 20% of edits by anonymous users have been through VisualEditor
to date, and this is likely to confuse them.

Will be developed the same action plan that was developed when the VisualEditor was implemented, id est, it will be announce in our "Café de noticias" —Village pump (news)— and the guide "Wikipedia:VisualEditor". Besides, we all will beware in order to solve the doubts from users and help them in this issue.

5. What is the plan for returning to use VisualEditor as the primary editor?

What changes or fixes would you like to see?

When the tool have been fully finished, and the developers let us know this situation, the entire community will be asked again about this issue. At the time, if there is consensus about its implementation, it will be enabled; if not, there will be another votation about the VisualEditor. Please also note that in a votation, the "enable" option must reach 2/3 of the votes to be enabled.

Regarding to the second question, several users are already working with the VisualEditor and they are reporting their feedback to the developers; so when it will be reported that the software has not structural flaws and that the use experience is acceptable, we will let you know. Also, there has been an interest in solving all the incompatibilities with other "mod" and "opt-in" softwares, although it is known that some of them are already fixed.

Finally, even if they had nothing to do with the VisualEditor, several users have meant to note that more economics and human resources should be focuses on fixing existing problems such us the FastButtons —it was disabled weeks ago because a security breach—, the cellular phone and portable devices editing softwares, etc.

Understood. Thank you for the responses. I have adjusted the configuration change to correct for these issues as much as we can.

I will now ask my colleagues to find a time that we can make these changes.

(In reply to comment #11)

Finally, even if they had nothing to do with the VisualEditor, several users
have meant to note that more economics and human resources should be focuses
on
fixing existing problems such us the FastButtons —it was disabled weeks ago
because a security breach—, the cellular phone and portable devices editing
softwares, etc.

Indeed beyond the scope of a bug: I've copied this to https://www.mediawiki.org/?diff=902629&oldid=892609 . It would be useful if those users (or other users who understand Spanish and read their comments) could elaborate/continue the discussion there, I think.

albertojuansebastian wrote:

Thank you very much, James. If you have any doubt, ask us here or there: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Caf%C3%A9/Archivo/Noticias/Actual#Acuse_de_recibo.

Regards.

And thanks, Nemo. Maybe I could convince some of my 'tech collegues' on esWikipedia to take part in the discussion there.

Greetings.

Thank you all. Albertojuanse.

This is now done.