ayg wrote:

*** Bug 8070 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

spacebirdy wrote:

Please note that ns:4 and ns:5 are different for the vo.Wiktionary!

‎ns:4/ ns:Project -> Vükivödabuk

ns:5/ ns:Project_talk -> Vükivödabuk_bespik

thanks

river wrote:

other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so
they can go into MediaWiki?

spacebirdy wrote:

(In reply to comment #3)

other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so
they can go into MediaWiki?

As You can see here http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8070
everything except Project/projectalk are for all Volapük equal.

river wrote:

okay. can you provide a translation of the word "Project" into Volapük, and a
translation for "$1 talk" ("$1 bespik"?).

spacebirdy wrote:

I cannot, since the community did the translations, but I left Smeira and Manie
messages who were the main translators, they will tell us soon.

s.meira wrote:

The Volapük word for "Project" is "Proyeg", and the word for "talk"
is indeed usually "bespik". But what exactly is the "$1" in "$1
bespik"? Note that, in Volapük, the normal order is possessed-
possessor, not possessor-possessed as in English; so something
like "John's talk" would be "talk of John" (or "bespik ela John", in
Volapük). I sometimes had to do such order changes while translating
the system messages into Volapük. If the $1 is the possessor, then
maybe "$1 bespik" should become "bespik ela $1", but if it is not the
possessor then it shouldn't. Can you clarify?

robchur wrote:

In this case, $1 is replaced with the namespace name, e.g. "Project talk",
meaning, "discussion about Project".

s.meira wrote:

Oh, in this case no change in order is necessary. But since the
semantic relation between the two elements is not adjectival
(rather: talk about project), it seems better to add a
punctuation mark between the two; say: "Proyeg: bespik"
or "Proyeg/bespik" or "Proyeg - bespik" (i.e. "$1: bespik"
or "$1/bespik" or "$1 - bespik". My personal preference would
go to the hyphen " - ", in case it has no other uses.

river wrote:

does this apply to the other namespaces as well, e.g. "Geban bespik" -> "Geban

• bespik"?

s.meira wrote:

In general, yes. Hmmm... if this "$1 bespik" is meant only for
namespeaces, it would be possible to make a coumpound word with the
connecting vowel "i" (since the relation is always accusative,
right? "To discuss the project", "to discuss the user"...), and so
have "Proyegibespik", "Gebanibespik", or, in general, "$1ibespik".
Is that OK?

For any choice: in case, say, one of the final outputs ends up
grammatically incorrect, can I come back here and ask for a
correction?

river wrote:

yes, you can change it later, but it's best not to, because it will break any
links to the old name (but links to the English name are always okay).

does this look correct?

NS_MEDIA            => 'Nünamakanäd',
NS_SPECIAL          => 'Patikos',
NS_MAIN             => '',
NS_TALK             => 'Bespik',
NS_USER             => 'Geban',
NS_USER_TALK        => 'Gebanibespik',
# NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
NS_PROJECT_TALK     => '$1ibespik',
NS_IMAGE            => 'Magod',
NS_IMAGE_TALK       => 'Magodibespik',
NS_MEDIAWIKI        => 'Sitanuns',
NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK   => 'Sitanunsibespik',
NS_TEMPLATE         => 'Samafomot',
NS_TEMPLATE_TALK    => 'Samafomotibespik',
NS_HELP             => 'Yuf',
NS_HELP_TALK        => 'Yufibespik',
NS_CATEGORY         => 'Klad',
NS_CATEGORY_TALK    => 'Kladibespik',

also, the current project name is "Wikipedia" (this is also the meta namespace
name, so the default project talk namespace would be Wikipediaibespik). do you
want this changed at the same time?

s.meira wrote:

'Nünamakanäd' OK.
'Patikos' OK.
'Bespik' OK.
'Magod' OK.
'Geban' OK.
'Samafomot' OK.
'Yuf' OK.
'Klad' OK.

"Project name": The other Volapükists had already decided to call
it 'Vükiped', a name that even has an appropriate Volapük meaning
(something like 'the keeping (of information) among (us)'). Can you
change the project name (# NS_PROJECT, I suppose?) to 'Vükiped'?

NS_MAIN is the "Main" namespace, right? I suppose the best
translation is something like "mainspace", which is 'Cifaspad' in
Volapük.

On the "talk" ('bespik') categories: yes, I see already a problem
in this list of examples. 'Sitanuns' = "system messages" (is this,
by the way, the meaning of MediaWiki? What goes in that
namespace?), which is a plural word; and plural words can't be the
first part of compounds with the -i- linking vowel (they have to be
singular). So we need something more flexible here, that can take
plurals or (undeclinable) foreign words also. I now propose:

'bespik dö $1' (instead of '$1ibespik')

and therfore also:

'Bespik dö geban' (User talk)
'Bespik dö magod' (Image talk)
'Bespik dö proyeg' (Project talk)
'Bespik dö sitanuns' (Mediawiki talk)
'Bespik dö samafomot' (Template talk)
'Bespik dö yuf' (Help talk)
'Bespik dö klad' (Category talk)

By the way -- if in the future I have furher corrections, do I come
back to this specific page (bug 8069), or do I start a new bug?

river wrote:

the MediaWiki namespace mostly stores interface messages. there are a few
other things (like the bad image list) which aren't messages.

the main namespace has no name, although when it's referred to it's usually
called "(main)" (at least in English). this is a normal message any sysop can
change (see Special:Allmessages), not part of the namespace list.

btw, you can have different formats for each namespace, so there could be
"Gebanibespik" but "Bespik dö sitanuns".

anyway, based on this the list now looks like:

NS_MEDIA            => 'Nünamakanäd',
NS_SPECIAL          => 'Patikos',
NS_MAIN             => '',
NS_TALK             => 'Bespik',
NS_USER             => 'Geban',
NS_USER_TALK        => 'Bespik_dö_geban',
# NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
NS_PROJECT_TALK     => 'Bespik_dö_$1',
NS_IMAGE            => 'Magod',
NS_IMAGE_TALK       => 'Bespik_dö_magod',
NS_MEDIAWIKI        => 'Sitanuns',
NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK   => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns',
NS_TEMPLATE         => 'Samafomot',
NS_TEMPLATE_TALK    => 'Bespik_dö_samafomot',
NS_HELP             => 'Yuf',
NS_HELP_TALK        => 'Bespik_dö_yuf',
NS_CATEGORY         => 'Klad',
NS_CATEGORY_TALK    => 'Bespik_dö_klad',

the sitename and metanamespace will be "Vükiped", so the project talk name will
be "Bespik_dö_Vükiped".

s.meira wrote:

OK, I see. So I'll choose the compound form in the cases in
which it looks "sharper", and use the "bespik_dö_X" form in the
cases where it doesn't. Then, assuming that, since the
MediaWiki space basically stores interface messages and thus is
reasonably translatable as "system messages" (= 'sitanuns'), my
list would then be:

NS_MEDIA => 'Nünamakanäd',
NS_SPECIAL => 'Patikos',
NS_MAIN => '',
NS_TALK => 'Bespik',
NS_USER => 'Geban',
NS_USER_TALK => ''Gebanibespik'',

NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace

NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1',
NS_IMAGE => 'Magod',
NS_IMAGE_TALK => 'Magodibespik',
NS_MEDIAWIKI => 'Sitanuns',
NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns',
NS_TEMPLATE => 'Samafomot',
NS_TEMPLATE_TALK => 'Samafomotibespik',
NS_HELP => 'Yuf',
NS_HELP_TALK => 'Yufibespik',
NS_CATEGORY => 'Klad',
NS_CATEGORY_TALK => 'Kladibespik',

river wrote:

okay, that should be changed now. let me know if anything isn't working
right...

(you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links)

spacebirdy wrote:

(In reply to comment #16)

okay, that should be changed now. let me know if anything isn't working
right...

(you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links)

Hello, this is now a bit of a problem, because every page which was in the
Wikipedia-namespace can't be reached anymore because Wikipedia: redirects now to
en.wiki O.o
How can this be solved? The other old namespacenames are working
http://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Spacebirdy
Thanks in advance for any advice.

river wrote:

sorry, this should be fixed now. (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect
to the new project namespace.)

spacebirdy wrote:

(In reply to comment #18)

sorry, this should be fixed now. (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect
to the new project namespace.)

Cool, thanks a lot.

Please could the project namespaces for Wiktionary can be set also

NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace

NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1',

"Vükivödabuk"
"Bespik_dö_Vükivödabuk".

As a precaution I already moved now all pages in ns:Wiktionary: to Vükivödabuk
in order to prevent the same thing that happend on vo.wiki.

river wrote:

okay, done. in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki
([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the
"broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/
broken]].

because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those
could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name). either
you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to /
broken as well.

spacebirdy wrote:

(In reply to comment #20)

okay, done. in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki
([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the
"broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/
broken]].

because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those
could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name). either
you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to /
broken as well.

Argh, sorry for that, I can't delete since I am no sysop, we have to wait for
Smeira or Manie to do so.

s.meira wrote:

OK, I'll have a look at that -- I'm sysop in both wikis. This will have to wait till tomorrow
though -- I've got quite a busy day right now. But tomorrow I should be able to take care of it.

manielombard wrote:

I've deleted those eight redirects on vo-wiki :))

s.meira wrote:

Danö, Manie! I will try to add a few help pages in the Vükiped
namespace, and do other changes in the existing pages. Are there
any loose redirects left in Vükivödabuk (Wiktionary)? I couldn't
find any when I looked.

Thanks to the bugzilla people! A final question -- if there are
any further problems, should we come back to this very page (Bug
8069), or should we start a new bug?

spacebirdy wrote:

No there are none left, hopefully the old pages can now be fixed.

s.meira wrote:

One question: I started changing all category and image
references from [[Category:XX]] and [[Image:XX]] to [[Klad:XX]]
and [[Magod:XX]] (using the pywikipedia bot replace.py, with the
option -start:!). Every time the bot fetches 50 pages, it issues
a number of warning messages with the form:

Should the bugzilla people change this family file specification
somwhere? Or should I do it somewhere on my pywikipedia folder?

s.meira wrote:

Another little question: I can change e.g. [[Category:XXX...]] to
[[Klad:XXX...]] with replace.py (from pywikipedia bots) when it
occurs in content pages. But if it occurs in Category pages
(e.g., the Category "Zifs in Rumän" 'cities in Romania' contains
[[Category:Zifs]] to make it a subcategory of "Zifs" 'cities'),
then I can't change it with replace.py. Do you happen to know
what I should do in order to change [[Category:XX]] links
automatically also in Category pages?

river wrote:

okay, the missing pages on vowiktionary should be back again.

pywikipedia: this isn't part of mediawiki/wikimedia... you'll need to fix that
separately, or contact its author (i don't know anything about it). it could
be that not knowing about the new names is confusing it.

if there are any problems with the names of namespaces, you can reopen this
bug, otherwise it's best to open a new one.

spacebirdy wrote:

River, thanks a lot for all Your efforts!

Sérgio, You can contact me if You still need help with Your bot.